"I think I may be somebody who believes in the Pope's position more than most Catholics. I really take people at their word. And it seems like all of the cynicism and all of the -- who are we going to get in, modernizing -- there's not supposed to be modernizing. It's supposed to be word of God."
March 6, 2013
Watch this: Outspoken atheist Penn Jillette (Penn & Teller) defends Catholic orthodoxy on CNN's Piers Morgan Tonight
"I think I may be somebody who believes in the Pope's position more than most Catholics. I really take people at their word. And it seems like all of the cynicism and all of the -- who are we going to get in, modernizing -- there's not supposed to be modernizing. It's supposed to be word of God."
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What I find amazing is that an atheist makes more sense than a so-called Catholic. This is the issue with the church in America. Some have their opinions on what the church should be and their opinions don’t mean squat. The host showed is totally ignorance of the Catholic faith. I’m sure he’s more confused when he recites the profession of faith.
ReplyDeleteArticulated succinctly, logically, and refreshingly. Well said, Penn. Perhaps if you can see the matter so straight-on you are not so very far away from home after all. God bless you.
ReplyDeleteBasically this is a show. The Host want to make the discussion a spectacle of Catholic Bashing with the help of an aetheist. But he himself became sort of alaughing stock...
ReplyDeleteThis is the problem with so many Catholics today. They DON'T want to follow the CATHOLIC church, they want the Catholic church to become the Protestant church. That's not the way it works. I have far more respect for people who, if they cannot or do not want to follow some aspect of the faith they were born into, finding another church that tells them whatever they want to do is just hunky dory rather than see them attempt to force the church they were born into to become something it is not, never was and never will be. Bravo to Mr. Penn on a very eloquent and insightful take on what Catholics actually should be doing if they are calling themselves Catholics.
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ReplyDeleteMr. Morgan is clearly unable to use logic and critical thinking as well as relevant unexaggerated arguments to put forth his very limited and narrow opinions and thought process.
ReplyDeleteYour religion isn't a buffet. You don't get to say 'i'll have a bit of transubstantiation and a dash of no abortion but hold the contraception'.
ReplyDeleteThe Catholic Church is based on the concept of "one man, one vote". The Pope's the man and he's got the vote. If you don't agree with him then you're NOT A CATHOLIC, are you?
This was fascinating to watch. And something all of us should watch. You either believe it or you don't. So simple.
ReplyDeleteThis was fascinating to watch. And something all of us should watch. You either believe it or you don't. So simple.
ReplyDeletePenn is straight forward: Morgan is a Protestant pretending to be a Catholic. God's law is eternal it does not follow the fashion of the day. Morgan you and people like you are CLOWNS!
ReplyDeleteWow! It looks like Morgan didn't know what hit him. He clearly wasn't expecting defense of the Catholic Church coming from and atheist.
ReplyDeleteIt's not the first time that it's taken an avowed atheist to deconstruct the anti-Catholic nonsense that prevails.
ReplyDelete* On: the Pope, Africa and condoms (yawn).
* For those outside the UK: the reference to "Home Counties humanists" concerns the uber-liberal elite (new atheists) that reside in the fashionable leafy areas immediately surrounding London and commute-in.
BredanONeillSpiked
I think Penn is mocking your beliefs. He is an atheist, remember.
ReplyDeletePiers Morgan..NOT a Catholic.
ReplyDeleteBecome it LOGICAL. IF you accept to be Catholic you DO what CHURCH is teaching.
ReplyDeleteIt's like choosing at coach/teacher you choose him, so he can teach you and you are going to follow HIM. Not you OWN idea "how to". If you have your own idea...you don't need coach/teacher.
BTW. You can choose NOT to be Catholic. REALLY.
Penn Jillette seems like a very intelligent guy. As an Englishman myself I'm disappointed that Morgan doesn't know that non-ordination of women is a Church dogma, is not open to "interpretation" and has its origin in the life of Jesus Christ/Bible. Or that he has been brainwashed by the liberal media mantra of "condoms would have saved millions in Africa". The evidence is to the contrary. But let's not be too hard on Morgan. A problem we have today is that many Catholics don't know their faith - and its beauty - well enough. And that is our fault. We need to be educating ourselves (Mass would be a good place to start), and telling our story more forcefully. At the moment we're letting the wayward and uninformed secular media do it for us. And the average consumer of the wayward secular media is not an intelligent person like Jillette.
ReplyDeleteRemarkable. The self-identified atheist—Mr. Jillette—credibly presents the Catholic position better than the self-identified Catholic—Mr. Morgan—whose position is actually more closely aligned with that of Luther as Mr. Jillette correctly points out. If I believed as Morgan professes to, I would simply have the intellectual honesty to stop identifying myself as a Catholic; as I did when I regrettably held views that were at variance with essential Catholic teaching.
ReplyDeleteAnd all theology aside, Mr. Morgan is not even correct on the public health issue of AIDS and condom distribution: http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=32739
Mr. Morgan is unhappy with various “interpretations” of the Pope, yet he seems woefully ignorant of some very basic facts.
Jesus said very clearly in Scripture that divorced people can't remarry. Morgan needs to spend enough time with Scripture to learn what it actually says. See Mark 10:1-12, Matthew 5:31-32, Matthew 19:1-9, and Luke 16:18 for places where Jesus clearly says remarriage if one's original spouse is living is actually adultery.
ReplyDeleteThis is a perfect a sample of reasoning logically based on a particular premise, in this case, the Catholic understanding of the Papacy.
ReplyDeleteIt further demonstrates how unreasonable it is to call oneself a Catholic and dissent from the Church's teaching. It is demonstrably illogical.
If this isn't enough, it shows how solid reasoning can lead one to God and unreasonable opinions lead one away from God.
To top it off, Piers Morgan is an ignoramus. He doesn't have a clue and should be embarrassed to display his ignorance and obtuse thinking.
"I can't believe I've got Penn Gillette in front of me defending my Church against my own criticisms of it."
ReplyDeleteBut it isn't your Church. A great number of people, Catholics, are under the mistake assumption that they have some kind of ownership stake in the Catholic Church because they have received baptism and some of the other sacraments. The Church belongs to Jesus Christ. It is the royal property of our Sovereign. If you declare Jesus Christ King, you are His subject. There are no citizens in a Kingdom. Jesus Christ announced the Kingdom of God. A king (a vicar, well, not always) reigns until death and Jesus will never die. There are only loyal subjects of our King's authority, those that rebel against His authority, and those that have not yet come under his authority. You have no claim on the Kingdom of God or His Church.
The trouble with too many American Catholics are the results of their upbringing. Their lives used to be governed by labor unions, the Church and the Democrat party. As long as all three moved towered the same social end it was ok. But with the radicalization of the Dem party and the decline of the Church in their lives and the lack of need for labor unions their main driver and motivator is politics and blindly follow the political party ergo: the Church has to drop celibacy, it's ban on women priests, it's "hatred" of abortion and gay people. Many of these people do not attend Mass regularly and voted for Obama in big numbers. So they see the Church in term of liberal/conservative, old vs.new, medieval vs.modern. They will not change because they fear they are rejecting their family if they do. We red to pray for these people.
ReplyDeleteOf course, Penn didn't quite get it right either several times. For instance, Divine Revelation closed with the death of the last Apostle - no Pope adds to Revelation, even when speaking ex cathedra, he can only clarify Revelation. Penn was wrong in agreeing with Morgan about how condoms could save millions of lives while ignoring the fact that they are notoriously unreliable and they demonstrably encourage sex outside of marriage thereby exposing more people to more stds. He was also wrong in completely accepting Morgan's statements about Jesus and contraception, divorce and women priests. And last, Penn somewhat mucked up the Church's position on interpreting the Bible (making it sound as if Catholics really shouldn't be reading and interpreting the Bible - that only the Pope should be doing that). As he's an atheist, I'm sure that if a faithful Catholic discussed these matters with Penn, he would make use of those inaccuracies to set up straw men to undermine the Church/faith in God. Even so, he was still light-years ahead of Piers Morgan - which demonstrates just how woefully ignorant Morgan is of the Catholic faith.
ReplyDelete"I can't believe Penn Jillette is actually defending the Pope"
ReplyDeleteHe's defending LOGIC which you seriously lack!
I have watched Penn Jillette's career off and on, and saw a seeming transformation after he became a father. If you saw him on Trump's Apprentice, it was very impressive-- he is quite a guy. Kudos for his openness.
ReplyDelete